First online Death Cafe!
This wasn’t our actual Death Cafe. Barack Obama wasn’t there, this is just what a google hangout looks like…but wouldn’t that be cool.
A couple of nights ago I held my first online Death Cafe. To the best of my knowledge it was the second one ever held online (the first having been run from LA 2 days earlier).
God I love our digital world.
There were 8 to begin (we lost 2 along the way – to internet issues, not death) and in terms of our physical locations we were to be found in London, Oxford, Portugal, California, Arizona, and Tauranga. Google hangouts brought us all face-to-face on the computer screen.
Everyone had a drink (compulsory – you wouldn’t sit in a cafe without a drink, would you?) with the option of cake. I seemed to be the only one who had something cakeish – some cookies I had baked earlier in the day (it was my first time baking in about 20 years so I was quite proud…though the cookies were horrendous. I ate them anyway.)
Once we had gotten through the initial teething problems of using google hangouts for the first time, we introduced ourselves and everyone seemed to be quite comfortable with each other very quickly. Death is, after all, the greatest leveller.
As always the topic was death. And life. One can’t really (and shouldn’t) be discussed without the other as the two go hand-in-hand.
The conversation goes wherever it wants to in a Death Cafe….and at this one the Death Cafe movement itself was discussed as there were some attendees who were looking to run their own – how to run them, the importance of them, how to tell people about them. We also spent some time talking about why some people act offended by the idea of Death Cafes and actually around death itself.
Among other death-related topics, we chatted about funeral plans (our own) or lack thereof and how different members of the group has used deaths in their lives, religious thinking around death, and things we might want to get done if we knew it was our last year of life.
The one and a half hour get-together went so fast. Too fast. And I really would have loved to chat with the group for hours. But for some of us it was bedtime, some lunch time, and for others it was time to tend to the kids who had just gotten up for school.
It was so amazing to bring together a group from all around the globe, from their bedrooms/living rooms/ studies, to all meet and chat about death in a relaxed way.
The feedback was brilliant and I will shortly (in the next couple of weeks) be starting up regular online Death Cafes on different days and at different times, to allow for as many people as possible to attend from wherever they are in the world, no matter what their time zone or routine, from the comfort of their homes.
If you are interested in attending or want to know a bit more then get in touch!! kristie@kristiewest.com
Much love,
Kristie
xx
{ 8 comments }
This is a wonderful idea. How did it come about? I mean I know how a death cafe is and how they were started, but what was your inspiration for taking to Hang Out?
Hi Kelly,
I had been thinking online Death Cafes for a while. I had facilitated for Jon several times already in physical groups but saw that there was a real space there for people who are in different parts of the world and want to attend a death but don’t have one near them or can’t get out easily due to family commitments, etc, or who would just prefer to join from home. I do all of my coaching work online so I already know the flexibility and usefulness of it in connecting people wherever they are.
I had mentioned a couple of times to Jon that I wanted to do this but hadn’t actually planned it out….and when I finally said to him that I was actually going to set a date he was one step ahead of me and had just put out a request to see who would be interested in hosting the first round of online death cafes.
In terms of google hangout – I know skype can be a little unreliable at times, especially for a heavy group call, and I had heard google hangouts are much better. It’s a brilliant platform for it actually!
Hope to see you on one sometime!
Kristie
xx
Hi Kristie, I looked up the Death Cafe website and found the following comment: “We encourage hosts to let their communities know a Death Cafe does not constitute a bereavement support or grief counselling setting, especially not for people who have experienced a very recent and/or traumatic loss or death.” I find this comment rather disturbing. Are these Death Cafes just for people who want to talk about death in some abstract way or are they for real. How can they separate death from life in such a callous way? x
Hi John,
The difference between a Death Cafe and a support group is definitely a valid question and important to understand. Though I think you may have misunderstood the intention of the statement you have pasted above.
In none of the written information around Death Cafe does it suggest that people are not to discuss their personal experiences of death and their feelings around this. Indeed at every Death Cafe I have attended or facilitated people have been encouraged to share their own experiences – whether these be around deaths that have happened in their lives, their own near-death experiences, or their experiences of their own terminal illnesses, for example.
But there is a huge difference between an environment where you can share your thoughts, ideas and experiences ….and a support group.
Between a Death Cafe and a support group this is a massive difference in intention, expectation of those attending, attendees, how the meeting is facilitated, and responsibilities/roles of the facilitator. Anyone who is comfortable talking about death and experienced in facilitating groups can run a Death Cafe. The expectations, responsibilities, skills and experience of someone running a support group however are entirely different.
Recently I read of someone who ran a Death Cafe and had a gentleman who was advised by a hospice to attend after his wife’s recent death. They had taken it for a support group and he ended up collapsing of the emotional overwhelm straight after the group. The Death Cafe was not the right place for him. This is why it is so important this statement (that you have posted above) is made clear.
As a GRIEF specialist whose focus and passion are generally completely around grief I see it as crucial that a distinction is drawn between the two and actually irresponsible not to do so.
Anyone can attend a Death Cafe to discuss their experiences and thoughts, etc around death. But if it specifically bereavement support they are looking for then this is not the environment to provide that.
Yes Kristie, I understand the philosophy behind the statement and thank you for explaining it; the point I am making is the statement is divisive and doesn’t feel very understanding, nor does it offer alternative guidance to those who need it, it felt very abandoning. “In the midst of life there is death”. I believe your stated objective is to make death a more inclusive term and a normal part of life, how can we then separate the feelings of bereavement from death itself? This is telling people who are recently bereaved that they need to be separated – which in today’s society is the truth. Surely the Death Cafe’s should be trying to encourage people to talk about the reality of death and how it feels, not just the abstract idea of it?
As I said John – it is not about only discussing death as an abstract idea at all – people are encouraged to speak about their experiences and feelings around death and deaths in their life. But a support group is not just a place to do this…it is also a place to receive a very particular type of support in often a counselling/therapy/coaching environment, which is not what Death Cafe is.
You make a good point that there should be an addition to the comment suggesting that alternative help in terms of a support group, etc can easily be sought instead if that is what the person is seeking. For myself I do state on my Death Cafe page on my website that if someone is specifically looking for bereavement help then they can contact me to talk about this.
Thank you Kristie, it’s only Western Society that has developed the idea of human support groups being different from the rest of society; indigenous tribes would wonder incredulously at such divisions. I think this has come about because of the split between feelings and thinking in our society; between Nature and Science; Ecology and Commerce, Individual and Society, etc. I do agree with you that this is the state of Western Society and your approach has to take this into consideration; however, having had many experiences of therapy, counselling and support groups, I’ve found them sadly lacking, since they create a division between the therapist/facilitator and the clients, as though one is OK and the other isn’t. My healing started when I saw that I was not sick or unwell I was just being human experiencing a difficult time; we need each other in this process, and to know that we are not inadequate because we can’t cope or unusual because we have pain. Beauty, talent, success, happiness, peace and life are only one side of the equation of being human; empathy with another’s pain can only come from us experiencing pain and coming through it with equanimity. Talking about feelings is not the same as experiencing them. I’m not sure I could sit in a Death Cafe and talk about my feelings without having them, if you understand what I mean – keep up the good work.
Jon
I totally get the point you are making. I too have tried different counselling and therapy session, tried taking to friends but every time have received patronising sympathy not the understanding empathy I so crave. When you suddenly experience a close death you suddenly become labelled and people become either over cautious and say little or try to make things better but say all the wrong stuff. I understand the point Kristie makes on the difference between the two facilities but I can see the point you’re making that if we were able to generally talk more openly about death, accepting grief and death as part of life then maybe the stigma felt by those grieving would be lifted. I know part of my struggle is how I’m made to feel like I have a huge problem, poor Dawn it must be terrible or poor Dawn she’s doing so well how does she cope. All such patronizing statements. All I want to do is share with someone who understands. Oh heck this has turned into a bit of a rant, sorry.
{ 2 trackbacks }